I always figured that the last sign of the apocalypse would be that the Boston Red Sox would win the World Series. And then they did. Then I shifted to the White Sox, and they did too. Then I tried to imagine something that would prolong the apocalypse (in my mind, anyway) until far, far beyond my own lifetime: Mormons giving up on all things conservative.
Well, the majority of Mormons may not be heaving out conservatism entirely (one can only dream in my case…), but they are beginning to not feel the glow of the spirit when the Iraq war comes to mind. I found this today at one of my usual daily reading websites. It appears that the usual Mormon support for whatever is painted Republican, in this case Bush’s (illegal/unconstitutional/unprovoked) war in Iraq, has begun to wane. It is no secret or even matter of opinion that Bush is quite obdurate, but when the good state of Utah and its predominant redness begins to turn on you, you gotta know your time is about up.
Perhaps Utah isn’t as neo-conned as I thought. Or maybe Bush is just that bad. Who knows.
I like this little quip at the end of the synopse: “Mormon leaders in the church and government have been signaling that good Mormons can oppose the war” (emphasis mine). Oh, so I guess before these statements from the church the general consensus was that those of us anti-war Mormons were not good Mormons…
Yay. All this poll proves is there are weaklings who listen to an onslaught of the agenda driven media bias, and believe it. Yourself apparently being an early adopter.
And so what? Many people will also leave their seats early when their home team isn’t winning the game.
Americans (especially males) have become weak and wear down too easily.
Do you feel validated that “…good Mormons can oppose the war”?
What a relief it must be for you.
Of course the VP’s appearance at BYU ought to shore up some support.
Do you feel validated that “…good Mormons can oppose the war”?
Personally I don’t feel any more validated by this statement at all – those who know me well could attest. I just thought it was funny that a distinction needed to be made – Mormons tend to stick to their party with immense intensity – even when it flies in the face of morality and reason, such as the case with the Iraq War(s). Validation? No, I’m confident that my stance on it is right even before reading this. I just put it up for shock value. 😉
Of course the VP’s appearance at BYU ought to shore up some support.
Exactly. I guess it depends on perspective – I blame Cheney much more than Bush for the current state of our nation – Cheney is a member of the PNAC (and Bohemian Grove), not Bush.
This is very good news!
BJ,
Wow, you are a jerk. Or maybe you are just a weakling or (worse) an idiot who listens and believes everything that the agenda-driven government tells you. You must be proud.
As a liberal, reason told me to oppose the war 5 years ago and, like David J, I wait for no person or institution to tell me that I can think for myself.
David J,
Rage on my friend.
Here is the opinion of a “good” Mormon who is hyperconservative and has been a Republican all his life.
Good Mormons believe that sex sin is second only to murder, and murder is the worst sin there is. Therefore, there are no good Mormons who support the Iraq War because unnecessary killing that is not in self-defense is murder. And that is what is going on in Iraq. We attacked and invaded when they did not attack us first and were no immediate threat to us. The “good” Mormons that supported the Iraq War ceased to be good Mormons the moment they voiced approval of the invasion. They might just as well have gone out and smoked a cigar, knocked down a fifth of whiskey and visited their neighborhood hooker. Good Mormons do not approve of murder. If they do, they are no longer good Mormons.
John, whatever you might think of the war in Iraq, what the coalition forces are doing is not and has never been murder. Murder is killing committed with premeditated malice. The Iraq war has always been about helping people, and not just ourselves.
John and Jason, both of you are delusional; especially you, Jason.
Murder is killing committed with premeditated malice.
And so is half-baking an excuse to go and attack a seemingly defenseless country (with premeditated malice and intent to kill), blaming them for the involvement in 9/11 when they had none, blaming them for buying Nigerian yellow-cake when they never did (thanks Joe Wilson!), doing one of the most obvious and stark Orwellian flips in recent history, stripping us of our civil liberties in order to grant “freedom” (see the paradox???!!!), etc. etc. Stop the blind party allegiance and stick to your sense of logic and reason, man. Most of all, don’t point the finger at John because, I hate to say it, he’s more right than you are (albeit a bit extreme, but John’s known for his hyperbolic and esoteric extremism, but we still love him for it). I noticed that your ip address is coming out of Utah, so I guess you’re not one of those whose support for this illegal war is waning…
The Iraq war has always been about helping people, and not just ourselves.
I can’t believe you buy into that pablum. But whatever, at least you’re free to think all that stuff (for now).
I can’t believe you buy into that pablum. But whatever, at least you’re free to think all that stuff
I’m talking from experience. I was over there. And the only thing we were doing was trying to help the Iraqi people by trying to protect them from insurgents. Before there were insurgents, we were helping the Iraqi people by removing a cruel dictator.
blaming them for buying Nigerian yellow-cake when they never did
Only because Nigeria refused to sell it. But anyway, we never blamed them for buying it, only for seeking to buy it. The lies Wilson “debunked” were never lies at all.
Stop the blind party allegiance
It’s not at all about party allegiance — for me anyway (I disagree with republican thought on many points). I see it more as looking at the world either optimistically or pessimistically. Pessimism sees only scandals, cover-ups, half-truths, political intigues, excuses, etc. (Like the politics of the Vietnam war: in fear of the Domino Theory; showing the Soviets who’s boss; etc.) Whereas the optimistic worldview inserts ideals into what it sees. It looks at what is actually being accomplished, the actual effort. (Again, Vietnam: South Vietnam really didn’t want to be overtaken, the people really needed help resisting their would be oppressors and killers, etc.)
With the war that is now in Iraq, we can look at it in those two ways. There is the pessimistic lies and immoralities and illegalities etc etc etc. But there is also the optimistic, “what are we actually striving to accomplish?” Which is: establish a nation into a real democracy, that will be able to define its own future, where the people will be free to think and say and believe what they choose, not constantly shut up behind a wall of fear and oppression.
Say what you will, but, on the ground, freedom is our goal in Iraq.
(By the way, all you who talk about this “immoral” war, it would be incredibly more immoral if we were to just up and leave them now, after getting them into this mess of insurgents and bombings and executions. The many many many who have trusted in us and helped us will be the first on the list of the “purgations” that will come.)
Latterday scripture, the Doctrine and Covenants leaves nothing
is very explicate when it comes to war. We are commanded to “befriend the Constitution of the United States of America” and expressly forbidden to participate in any war that is not declared as per out Constitution. It is expressly decried as “evil” (anything more or less than this, the constitution cometh of evil).
So God, the author of our faith has called unconstitutionally declared wars “evil” and forbidden us from taking part in them.
As a Latterday Saint, I was severely disheartened to know that many Latterday Saints had abandoned our Constitution and denounced Latterday scripture in favor of their new religion, Republican World Dominance.
Bushism and the Republican Party as no longer political movements, they are the new religion, the new gods that supplant or replace all other religion, causing even faithful Christians to abandon, “peace on earth and goodwill to men”.
How sad.
Melinda Sue Wallace
Melinda there is a more common word for “Bushism” – it’s “neo-conservatism,” and its adherents are “neo-cons.”
What gets me is how some people appeal to the Constitution and then stop, like Melinda here. I wonder how many out there besides myself have ever examined it for what it says and found some flaws. I actually find parts of it wholly unappealing, outdated, inapplicable, or downright wrong.
…but I could say the same thing about scripture, so…