When Did Jesus Die ? (Day)

We have looked at what the Gospels have to say about the time that Jesus died in a post below. In this one, we take the next step and look at what they say about the day of the week.

Mk 15:42 is clear that Jesus died on the day before the Sabbath (PROSABBATON). Mt 27:62 and 28:1 indicate that day after Jesus’ death was the Sabbath. Lk 23:54 says that Jesus was buried on the “preparation,” that is, the day before the Sabbath. Jn 19:31 says that precautions were taken to ensure that Jesus’ corpse did not remain on the cross on the Sabbath.

All of the Gospels, then, are unified, indicating that Jesus spent some time with his disciples on what we would call Thursday evening and was arrested later that night. He was crucified the next day, which was Friday, and died before the beginning of the Sabbath at sunset.

I have used the expression “what we would call Thursday evening” just for clarity. In fact, the Jewish day started at sunset and ran to the next sunset. So provided this meal was celebrated after nightfall, the activities from that event until his death took place on one day – the day before the Sabbath.

What are the theological implications of this timing? The fact that Jesus died on an afternoon, just before the beginning of the Sabbath at sundown, sets the stage for the urgency that characterizes his burial. I think two things are worked out here.

First, the irony developed earlier in each PN (passion narrative) now become excruciating as it spills over and splashes just about everywhere. In each case, Jesus is buried by just about the oddest people you could imagine, with all that implies about the disciples and discipleship.

Second, the burial narratives give the alert reader some major hints that the story is not over, as I alluded to in my third response on the “hour.” And more interestingly, they also give some hints about what the future will hold for the followers of Jesus – not for the old disciples in the Gospels, who are pretty much out of the picture at the moment, but for the new disciples who will shortly rise to join them.

Now, however, I have to prepare my GD lesson for tomorrow. We are reading the Matthean infancy narrative together, and I must organize my thoughts on that matter. Please, please, add your own thoughts. I look forward to reading them late tomorrow afternoon, when I come back and try to finish my own.

When Did Jesus Die? (Hour)

When did Jesus die? The Gospels do not provide a single, unambiguous, answer.

This issue may be most easily addressed by breaking it down into more specific questions:

what hour of the day?
what day of the week?
what date in the month?
what year?

Hour of the Day

The Synoptics write that Jesus was near death by the ninth hour (Mk 15:34; Mt 27:46; Lk 23:44). In the Fourth Gospel, Jesus is before Pilate at the sixth hour (Jn 19:14). The most common way of counting the hours was to begin at 6 AM. This means that in the Synoptics, Jesus is near death at 3 PM, while in John he has yet to be crucified by noon.

Folks who feel the need to harmonize suggest that John starts his numbering of the hours from midnight, while the Synoptics numbered the hours from 6 AM, as above. John then reports that Jesus is in front of Pilate at 6 AM. This fits more comfortably with Mark’s indication (Mk 15:25) that Jesus was crucified at the third hour, that is, 9 AM.

Since there is no need to harmonize, I am satisfied to say simply that Jesus died sometime in the late afternoon.

Your thoughts?

Millenial Model?

If it is appropriate to take the events and calamities leading up to the death and resurrection of Christ in the Book of Mormon as a model for the period prior to the second coming, is it then appropriate to take the events of 3rd Nephi 11-4th Nephi 1:18 as a model for the millenium?

The Rules and The Source

Take a moment and think about Dungeons and Dragons. Did any of you play this game as children? Are you Satanists now? Just curious…

I played D&D (or AD&D, at the time) quite a bit growing up. The guy who was our regular DM (ie. the dude who ran the game) always tried to straddle the line between strict adherance to the rules and fudging them to make it the game funner for those participating. We had two kids who consistently went out of control. One who would go off and play with other gamers and come back with these spectacular magical items which, he would then insist, our DM allow him to use in our game. The DM would agree and then destroy the items at the first convienient opportunity. The other kid would consistently get fed up with the slow pace of the game (at around the hour mark) and then spend the rest of the game trying to get the rest of us killed. He would always start the game with some random new chaotic good character and, by the end of the night, he would be some random dead chaotic evil character. I look at that last paragraph and realize what a geek I was (and probably still am).

So, aside from embarassing myself with my high-school nerditude, I think that AD&D (or games in general) may help explain the difference that Geoff J and I appear to be having regarding the manner in which the atonement is expressed in the repentance process. As you have likely guessed, I will, of course, be comparing God to Gary Gygax.

Gary Gygax wrote the rules of AD&D. He came up with manner in which one generates a character (ie. the role that one plays in the game). He developed the manner in which those characters can change over time. He explained who you could be, what you could be, and why you could be it. He established the rules.

Within the parameters of the rules, you could develop your character. You could go on adventures, chop up orcs, drink potions, find treasure, etc. All of these experiences allowed your character to develop over time, helping you to become better. The changes that your character experienced were of two sorts: first, when you received a certain number of experience points (ie. an arbitrary measure of how much your character had learned/developed over time), you were granted the next level (meaning that you received new powers and abilities); second, your character changed because of the experiences themselves (at least, it would if you were a good role player). You might get 2000 experience points for defeating a dragon or something, but if all of your friends died in the process, you were expected to play the game from then on like someone whose friends had died helping him defeat a dragon. Events were meant to have psychological, as well as physical, effects (which was why the two above geekier-than-I kids were particularly obnoxious).

Why Gary Gygax is like God: Gary established the rules. Without Gary, there are no rules. I do not mean that there are no other games and that there are no rules in those other games. I mean that, without Gary, we would not have had these games to play by these rules. Any character development that you accomplished in that game was accomplished by meeting the requirements that Mr. Gygax set out. Without Gygax’s consideration of the need for development, there is not development. This does not absolve you from personal responsibility in developing your character (it is a time-honored adage that if you let someone else play your character in a role-playing game, your character will get killed). If you want to develop the character, you have to do something. You just have to follow the rules that Gygax established in order to do the something. In this manner, I would say that Gary is like God.

Why Gary Gygax is not like God: well, aside from the obvious, AD&D does involve creation ex nihilo. Your characters do not exist until you sit down, roll dice, and make them. However, I don’t believe that this is a killer to the argument. In role playing, like in any other role, you put yourself into the world. You are introduced into the world of the game from elsewhere and you make a form of yourself for participation within the game. Reality contains no NPC’s (ie. roles filled by the DM, as opposed to players).

So, if God has established the rules for this world, what does “natural” change mean? If it means that these changes occur according to the rules of the world, I am happy to go along with that (for at least as long as we are in an physical, fallen world). God has established the rules and we progress or regress as we follow them. There doesn’t appear to be another set of rules (for this world) and it appears that those who try to overturn the rules (ala my two friends) fail. Geoff might describe this as a passive role for God, but I tend to think that the rules are tailored too closely to the individual for this to be the case. In other words, while both Geoff and I have to be baptized and believe in Christ in general, some of the challenges that we face are individual (Geoff won’t have to learn to love my in-laws; I won’t have to deal with Geoff’s co-workers).

To be frank, I am not too happy with the above model, but I have put all the thought into it that I want for today. What do you all think?

I Ain’t Got No Body

Okay, enough of these posts on things that can actually have an effect on our daily lives! I need instead to delve into the mysteries, to things I can’t possibly know, and don’t need to know, you know?

I was reading 3rd Nephi recently, and finally hit the verse that I had previously assumed was mere theory within the church. It seemed like Authoritative theory, but I still thought there might be some wiggle room. Nope. This verse pretty much clears up who the God of the Old Testament was. Ok, fine, I can deal with that – it’s what I’ve been told.

But that got me thinking (oh no!) How was Jesus able to do the things he did, like creating the world and stuff, before becoming a resurrected being? Aside from Him needing to come to Earth to save us all, it doesn’t seem like He needed the ‘mortal challenge’ in order to progress. For that matter, 3rd Nephi suggests that he did the righteous smiting on them before he was resurrected. (Didn’t the darkness lift afterwards?) So, he did all of that world-changing again without a physical body?

I guess I had been led to believe that Jesus was the Firstborn of Heavenly Father, but was pretty much in the same boat as the rest of us, prior to coming to Earth. (Clearly not the case.) There was talk on another blog* about how intelligences / spirits might have been created, but it would seem that not all were created equally. Granted, we can’t all have been Saviors, but it does make me wonder how all of that happened. Perhaps one day it will all become clear. (FWIW, I can see the simple answer to this: He was a member of the Godhead, even pre-mortal.)

* I’m feel like I’m breaking some sort of Bloggernacle rule by not explicitly linking back to the referenced blog, but I really don’t remember where that was.

CallingAndElectionMadeSure (CAEMS)

I considered tacking this onto the end of David J.’s welcome post (of which I am trying not to be covetous of his responses.)

John C. made an allusion to my unusual religious upbringing; well, here it will be revealed in this system of things. (hint)

When reading about the Second Anointing, the topic of “Calling and Election made sure” featured prominently. When I was investigating the church, I had heard the phrase, and it sounded pretty much like the topic title. All one word and completely incomprehensible. (Much like FamilyHomeEvening.) When I got someone to explain it to me, it sounded very similar to a concept in the religion I had grown up in. In that religion, certain people (usually in leadership) would get a special feeling that they had been chosen to be a special servant of God and sit at his right hand. In other words, they would get to be one of the 144,000 mentioned in the book of Revelation (Chap 14) . Now, this “special feeling”, in LDS terms, could be likened to the Holy Ghost, which it sounds like modern interpretations of the Second Anointing are tending towards.

So, having this background, I wondered if the CAEMS might refer to the 144,000 for us, too. John C. thought not.

In case it’s not really obvious, I grew up as a Jehovah’s Witness. I was quite active until I was about 14 or so, when I began to question some of the doctrines that didn’t really make sense. Unable to get any good answers from them, I felt the need to seek elsewhere, which ended me up here. =)

So, any speculation, comments, words of wisdom on the similarities of these two versions of Heavenly Selection? I can’t actually believe that it is THE Holy Ghost visiting the Witnesses, so what gives?

Idle speculation

So, now that Bannergate is over (and really, what more is there to say after this), let’s move on to outing the other spectacular anonymous star of the bloggernacle: The Bloggernacle Snarker! (sorry, anonymoose and A.Nonny.Mouse).

The Snarker is harder to track down than the BoH people in part because the Snarker only rarely comments on other blogs. In fact, the only time that I know of is when the Snarker emphatically denied being Kurt (after Kurt emphatically denied being the Snarker(or did he)).

Due to Kurt’s obsession with Steve’s honesty (or, I should say, lack thereof), I will take him at his word (for now, at least). I have an idea as to who the Snarker could be, but I think that I will stick my speculations in the comments.

Okay, Bloggernacle, since we must not have secrets, who is the Snarker?

False Doctrine being taught at BYU?

It is possible that I accidentally taught false doctrine to my students at BYU yesterday, so I am going to put what I said before you, my discerning audience, and allow you to help me decide if a retraction, a clarification, or an affirmation is in order. It made sense at the time, but I was speaking off the cuff and further research has cast some doubt. I have given my students an assignment wherein they are to explain how Christ is both the Father and the Son. We talked about this a bit and then I made the following statement, relying, primarily, on Hebrews 10.

We mortals had no direct access to God, the Father, prior to the Atonement of Christ.
Continue reading “False Doctrine being taught at BYU?”

Why do we fall?

Assuming that the Fall of Humanity wasn’t an unplanned for mistake, but a part of God’s overall plan, why do we need to Fall?